Gwen Shamblin “Suits” up

Categories: Gwen Shamblin
by on January 11th, 2007

The tradition of false teachers and abusive leaders trying to use the government as a club to threaten or crush leaders God has called goes back millennia. We see Sanballat employ the threat of reporting Nehemiah as treasonous and seditious in an attempt to stop Nehemiah (Nehemiah 6:5-7). Haman is another example we read about in Esther 3:7-10. Haman ended up being hung by his own noose. We find in the book of Daniel a similar attempted use of governmental power in Daniel 6:4-9 which ended up landing Daniel in the lion’s den. He emerged unharmed and then the plotters and their families were given their turn as dinner guests in the lion’s den. They didn’t fare as well. Today, particularly in Western nations, it is easier for false teachers to employ the weapon of government than in times past. They don’t need the ear of the king but can simply file a lawsuit against detractors. The Local Church of Witness Lee with the support of CRI attempted this tactic against Harvest House Publishers and authors John Ankerberg and John Weldon. Scientology has used this vehicle for years. Recently a new player has ventured into the arena of trying to silence critics via the courts. In November of 2006 Gwen Shamblin and a number of her followers in Remnant Fellowship filed suit against Anonymous Blogger and Rafael Martinez. No one seems to know who “Anonymous Blogger” is but Rafael Martinez is the Co-Director of Spirit Watch Ministries.

For those who have not heard of Gwen Shamblin, Weigh Down Workshop or Remnant Fellowship a brief overview may be helpful. Gwen was a nutritionist who developed a weight loss plan that she claimed was biblically based. In 1992 she began marketing video tapes of the program and over the next eight years she made her mark in Evangelical churches around the world and across all denominations as well as being a regular in the secular media due to her meteoric rise and accumulation of personal wealth. She had over a million participants at $103.00 per person go through her program in addition to her book sales (Weigh Down Workshop and Rise Above) as well as other WDW trinkets and paraphernalia.

In August of 2000 we at MCOI received a number of phone calls and emails from folks attempting to verify Gwen Shamblin’s view of the Trinity. Since we don’t really track diet programs we hadn’t heard of Gwen Shamblin or Weigh Down Workshop. After looking at her website I called and spoke with Gwen. She was very firm that the doctrine of the Trinity was of pagan origin and taught by false teachers in the apostate church. MCOI issued a press release which within days brought this to the attention of the church. We also pointed out that she had started her own church, Remnant Fellowship. In researching how she was able to infiltrate the church virtually unchecked we began looking at her material. In her “Remnant Fellowship Introductory Video, 2000” Gwen tells the viewer that for 20 years her plan was to sneak in to the back door of the churches:

For the last twenty years I’ve had concerns about the state of the church and my first response was Weigh Down which was a message that sent lordship, total lordship, into the back door really of churches.

We have looked at Gwen’s teachings and claims at some length in our articles, “Weighed Down with False Doctrine” in the Fall 2000 MCOI Journal, “Gwen Shamblin: Weighed and Found Wanting,” in the CRI Journal, “Weigh Down Workshop – A Cult?,” in the Winter 2001 MCOI Journal and “Camping with Gwen: Or Will the True Remnant Please Stand Up?” in the Spring/Summer 2002 MCOI Journal. In addition Rafael Martinez and Spirit Watch have continued monitoring and commenting on Gwen and her movement. He has compiled a great deal of information on his website, in the section titled “About Gwen Shamblin and Remnant Fellowship.” Gwen’s teachings are a matter of public record and in the spirit of 1 Timothy 5:19-20 Gwen and the Remnant Fellowship leadership have been publicly exposed and rebuked. As pointed out, by her own admission she had to sneak in under the doctrinal radar through the back door of the churches and she did so under the guise of a weight loss program. She is very clear that she views all churches except hers as Babylon and the pastors as well as discernment ministries are regarded as false prophets and false teachers.

With her core teachings and beliefs being fairly well known and accessible through the Internet, Gwen is experiencing a more difficult time in growing her church than she did in garnering a following in her weight loss business. Even though she has managed to get a few television appearances recently, interviewers such at Matt Lauer, raise the question of her being a cult leader. Although she laughs it off it would cause concern in the minds of the television audience. Add to that the adverse press which was generated after her followers, Joseph and Sonya Smith who live in Georgia, were arrested and accused of beating their son to death. The results of the trial may prove interesting to the future of Remnant Fellowship.

Along Comes the Lawsuit

Reading the lawsuit is a little intriguing. Most material is about “an anonymous writer/publisher of a website…” The anonymous blogger began blogging in August of 2006. At first they were copying and pasting the writings of an individual from a private online discussion group. They interspersed their own thoughts with this material and used a few cut and paste pieces from Rafael’s writings. The lawsuit was filed on November 6 and by November 28 all of the entries had been removed and instead two links to Remnant Fellowship websites were in place. Anonymous Blogger also posted a long apology to Remnant Fellowship and Gwen Shamblin amidst claims that the devil made her/him do it (visions of comedian Flip Wilson).

As I read through the complaint, it appears that what Rafael is guilty of is living in Tennessee and having an anonymous person quoting portions of his material without his permission or consultation. On page 2 of the “First Amended Complaint” the last sentence of point 1 reads:

Additionally, Plaintiff’s bring an action for defamation by the Defendant Rafael Martinez who writings are related to the postings on the aforementioned website.

Point 4 of the same page declares:

The Defendant, Rafael Martinez, is a resident of the State of Tennessee.

The next several pages cite sample statements from the website and make accusations about “Anonymous Blogger” but it isn’t until we get to point 7 of page 5 that Rafael is brought in to play again with the one sentence:

The Defendant, Rafael Martinez, has written numerous false and hateful statements regarding the Plaintiff’s and their religious beliefs that are related to the postings by Anonymous Blogger.

So far, no examples of his supposed misdeeds are given with the exception of the crime of living in Tennessee. Finally, on page 6 point 16 the document supposedly gives examples of Rafael’s objectionable statements. Point 16 reads:

Defendant, Rafael Martinez, published one or more written false statements that were intended to impeach Plaintiff’s honesty, integrity, virtue, and/or reputation. The false statements expose the Plaintiff’s to hatred, contempt, and ridicule. The defamatory statements include, but are not limited to the following and have the same objective as the aforemention website of the Anonymous Blogger:

The three quotes which follow were not taken from Rafael’s site but from the Anonymous Blogger’s site. Shamblin’s attorney, Samuel J. Harris, is not actually dealing with the truth and/or validity of the statements in context but is charging Rafael on the basis of how someone else may have used or misused them. Even though that is the case looking at them can be helpful:

a. “She won’t tell you about the marriages that have ended, the children who have been starved and the family relationships dissolved directly due to her application of “God’s Rules.”

Even though this is a cut and paste statement it should be demonstratably true in a court of law. There are a fair amount of phone calls and emails that MCOI and Spirit Watch as well as other ministries receive on a fairly regular basis from parents whose adult children have cut off all communication. In other cases they are threatened to have all communication cut off if anything questionable is said about Gwen Shamblin and Remnant Fellowship. In some cases the followers move to Brentwood, TN to be in the “New Jerusalem” as Gwen calls it. In other cases a distraught spouse whose husband or wife has been told to join the group or face divorce calls in desperation. I suspect this is one case that the witnesses who desire to testify will be so numerous that they will have to draw straws in order to determine who will get the opportunity in order to keep it down to a reasonable number. Having this sort of testimony in court documents will also be helpful in demonstrating the truthfulness of these claims from a neutral source.

b. “Furthermore, Remnant Fellowship teachings are dangerous and destructive. Over the past five years, Remnant members have lost dangerous amount of weight, with extreme fasting often advocated (even 14-21 day fasts). Family relationships are often damaged because any family member who tries to convince a Remnant Fellowship member to leave the group is cut off.”

The second part of this has already been commented on but the first part is again a matter of public record. She has stated on a number of occasions that she based her diet theory on the Holocaust. I am fairly confident that Gwen would stop short of saying that Hitler was just running a very successful diet program but she has been fairly clear that at least parts of her ideas are based on the examples of those who lost weight while in the prison camps.

The third is also a matter of public record:

c. “The most disturbing development of Remnant Fellowship’s teachings include its advocacy over the past couple of years of extreme discipline for children raised in the movement, included repetitive and harsh spankings and whippings for children who disobey and do not maintain emotional control.”

Phil Williams of News Channel 5 in Nashville has done some very good work on this as well as other questions on Gwen Shamblin’s teachings. In his stories on the death of Joseph and Sonya Smith’s son Josef, he was able to show that one of the teachings of Remnant Fellowship leadership at that time was the showdown spanking which could last for hours and may include repeated spankings until the child stopped crying. He also points out that Remnant Fellowship members use glue sticks (rods used in glue guns) to punish their children because they inflict a great deal of pain but do not leave marks. The description and confirming sources are cited in Phil Williams report and I won’t repeat them here.

The fourteen count indictment filed against Joseph and Sonya Smith on June 15, 2006 includes beating their son Josef with a glue sticks and locking him in a box among other charges.

Gwen Shamblin and Remnant Fellowship may have gotten themselves in between a rock and a hard place on this one. If they back down it will serve to embarrass her before her followers. On the other hand, if they proceed with the suit against Rafael they will be embarrassed before the court and have the evidence enshrined in the court documents. Rafael’s response makes me smile and I am glad to call him friend. He ends with these words:

So who says Gwen doesn’t believe in Christmas? She sent me an early gift, one I took with humility and rejoicing (Matthew 5:11-12). The unvarnished truth is my defense, as well as the fortress of my One True God in Christ by the Spirit and it will be all established in a way beyond refutation .. thanks to this frivolous opportunism by a cultic movement finding itself increasingly under scrutiny.

73 responses to “Gwen Shamblin “Suits” up ”

  1. Jean says:

    Don –
    Thank you for your even-tempered, well thought-out responses here, even in the face of personal attacks and name-calling. You bring honor to God by what you do and in your behavior here. It’s obvious that you are calm, rational and peaceful, and it’s because you have truth on your side.

    By the way, Mr. Harris – if you’re still out there? I, too, am a “Ditto Head” and as a result have been trained to see thru the garbage. Your belittling, word games, name calling, etc. are very transparent attempts at silencing the opposition. Nice try, but it looks like everyone here is on to you.

  2. Samuel J. Harris says:

    While I read your support of Rafael Martinez in the main article above as several or repeated communication of the proposition that Remnant advocates child abuse through starvation and harsh whippings; your clarification in posting number 49 satisfies me that me that you are not saying Rafael Martinez is correct. In fact your statement, “Again, I do not think (my opinion) nor do I have any evidence that Gwen Shamblin and Remnant Fellowship “advocate child abuse or starvation” clearly contradicts Rafael Martinez’s statement.

    Yet you choose to side with Rafael Martinez who did in fact make the statements alleged on Spiritwatch or elsewhere. You call Remnant leadership false prophets yet you support someone who at the very least recklessly misstates the truth for his own agenda.

    I have no hatred of you in my heart. The tone I took was definitely inspired by and mirrored the tone I was greeted with. Tough criticism always is characterized as rude by the target of the criticism.

    Which brings me to why I write this morning (I note that the postings time have no bearing with the actual time), you and your followers appear to be blinded to how you look if your own words are applied to you. I noticed this is the new separate article where you criticize those who claim to speak for God yet you claim to be appointed to speak as a believer, presumably by God. There is a word I use for the actions those who fail to live up to the rules they set for everyone else – hypocrisy. I say that not to be mean, but merely in some faint hope that you will engage in honest self-reflection. Given the nature of the problem I perceive, I doubt you will.

    Now you preach about “unintended consequences.” Let me tell you one that concerns me.

    I have no fear of mass suicide by Remnant Members, and I have no fear of a child being harmed by a Remnant member (though that is possible by any human being so I don’t exempt Remnant members nor MO people). What I fear is some “Eric Rudolph-like inspired” individual who is motivated by false assertions that children are being starved and beaten to go to Remant Fellowship’s church one day with an AK-47 and trying to run up the score Columbine style.

    Let me refer you to this website found on the Internet and relayed to me by Robbie Bass.

    One poster stated the following:

    “They are a cult. They think that they are the new Jews and that Brentwood is the new Zion. I’m not even kidding.

    It was a hobby of my friends Jonathan and McFall to go there and observe them last year, and man, they’re crazy. Shamblin said she was a prophet, to my friend’s face, and also she said something to the media about how starvation is a viable way of losing weight because “the victims of the Holocaust didn’t die from it,” or some such nonsense.

    Those people also beat their children with glue sticks (the kind that go in a glue gun) because it doesn’t leave marks. They’re big into child abuse. They think beating your kid and leaving him alone in a room with a bible is a good way to correct behavior. They killed a child this way (in Atlanta I think).

    They deserve to be bombed.”

    We’ve tracked this down to a self-absorbed 23 year old History graduate from Middle Tennessee State University who lives in the Nashville area.

    Do I think you or Rafael Martinez intended to inspire violence against Remnant members? No. But words have consequences.

    Challenge them doctrinally but speculating on what you know not to be true about their treatment of children (and even Josef Smith was not beaten to death as the cause of death was not blunt force trauma; the press just went with a good story without gathering the facts (nothing new for the media there).

    Insinuating that people abuse children especially in light of the fact that it does happen by other groups could inspire a bomb or a shooter believing that Remnant is so evil that the deranged individual designates himself or herself as God’s avenging angel.


  3. Don Veinot says:

    Samuel wrote: “While I read your support of Rafael Martinez in the main article above as several or repeated communication of the proposition that Remnant advocates child abuse through starvation and harsh whippings;”

    It would be more accurate to say “read in to” since, as I have pointed out, such is neither stated nor implied as I have repeatedly demonstrated. But I do understand that honesty about this on your part could potentially open you up to being sued for libel yourself since you have been unable to substantiate your accusation. Be not afraid, I do not have to resort to the courts in a vain attempt to silence my critics.

    Samuel writes: “your clarification in posting number 49 satisfies me that me that you are not saying Rafael Martinez is correct.”

    Of course, you will have to prove that Rafael has made claims that Gwen and RF “advocates child abuse through starvation and harsh whippings.” As with me, simply asserting that he has made such statements isn’t the same as demonstrating that he has made such statements.

    Samuel writes:” You call Remnant leadership false prophets yet you support someone who at the very least recklessly misstates the truth for his own agenda.”

    Two things here. 1) A false prophet is a theological statement formed from biblical definitions. It has to do with one who claims to be a prophet from God (as Gwen does) who is communicating directly from God (as Gwen claims). The criteria have to do with what they say about the nature of God, nature of man, nature of sin and nature of salvation. If they make predictions about future events which fail to materialize, they are a false prophet. Gwen is the one who, by her own admission on her own Remnant Fellowship video tape, states that she snuck in to the back door of the church. What she teaches on the above outlined topics is in contraction to Scripture and in the cases where she sites a passage it is most often out of context. 2) Rafael doesn’t claim to be prophet and thus the handling of this is different. If he has knowingly or unknowingly made untruthful statements that Gwen and RF “advocates child abuse through starvation and harsh whippings” he needs to be confronted with that, repent and make a public apology to at least the same degree as his previous statements were published.

    Samuel wrote:” The tone I took was definitely inspired by and mirrored the tone I was greeted with. Tough criticism always is characterized as rude by the target of the criticism.
    Which brings me to why I write this morning (I note that the postings time have no bearing with the actual time), you and your followers appear to be blinded to how you look if your own words are applied to you.”

    This one reminds me of when my children, Lee and Jennifer, were young. One day Jennifer came running in to the living room rubbing her head and crying,” Lee hit me back first!” Unwittingly, those five little words told the entire story. She hit him first and attempted to paint herself up into a position of superiority or at least moral equivalency with hopes that I would punish him for defending himself. In other words, she was claiming that she “mirrored the tone” that she “was greeted with” when in reality she was the instigator to begin with. I find nothing in my initial response as being rude to you. Rather the rudeness was initiated and for the most part was consistent in your comments though out the exchange. I have to admit this is very typical of Gwen and her defenders. Gwen initiated the attacks on the very churches and pastors who had invited her program in. If what she says on her audio and video tapes subsequent to the public revelation of her doctrinal teachings are true she was not honest about her beliefs prior to those attacks. That they rejected her and her message subsequently is not religious persecution. It is rejection of what they believe is false doctrine and an individual who they think was dishonest to them about her essential beliefs in conformance with Acts 20:28-31 and other passages. If should be noted that prior to our press release in 200 critiquing her teachings on the Trinity in 200, I contacted her thinking that she had misstated and offered to help rewrite them in order to circumvent the flap which ultimately occurred. I remain more than willing to meet with her to address these issues.

    All in all, I am not really overly surprised. Personally I don’t mind tough criticism; I get it all the time. I have a large group to whom I am accountable and criticism is very much a part of that accountability. A good friend once said of this type of ministry that, “Conflict is not an occupational possibility it is a job description.”

    Samuel writes: “I noticed this is the new separate article where you criticize those who claim to speak for God yet you claim to be appointed to speak as a believer, presumably by God. There is a word I use for the actions those who fail to live up to the rules they set for everyone else – hypocrisy. I say that not to be mean, but merely in some faint hope that you will engage in honest self-reflection. Given the nature of the problem I perceive, I doubt you will.”

    You have mixed categories here. Gwen claims to be a prophet, like Ezekiel or Jeremiah, and that we cannot pick and choose from what she says but that we must obey all of it. As a prophet she makes declarations about nature of God and salvation. Jesus isn’t God. God the Father is limited in location (sometimes he is in the office, sometimes he is out of the office). He is limited in knowledge (he doesn’t know what is going on in the office when he isn’t there and believes Lucifer’s lies because he is so gentle and kind). There are other things and we have written and documented these claims. The other category is that all believers are to “beware of false prophets.” My exact words were:

    Rather, all believers are “appointed” to “Beware of false prophets.” Jesus Himself said that those who do are “wise” and those who don’t are “foolish.” There is more written in the New Testament on the issue of false teachers and false teachings than nearly any other subject.

    This is each individual believer personal responsibility. All believers are to be Bereans which implies independent thinking. All public teachers, pastors and leaders in the church are to be scrutinized in the same way. That is what the whole of First Timothy and Galatians is about. The higher someone is elevated in public ministry the more accountable they become to a larger number of people. Basically leaders live in glass houses and everyone around them has Windex. As an individual is elevated into higher positions of leadership with the church the biblical responsibility to warn others and guard against false doctrine in essential areas of the faith increases. False prophets on the other hand tend to keep their followers fearful of questioning or holding them accountable as questioning the false prophet is viewed as equal to questioning God Himself.

    Samuel writes: “What I fear is some “Eric Rudolph-like inspired” individual who is motivated by false assertions that children are being starved and beaten to go to Remant Fellowship’s church one day with an AK-47 and trying to run up the score Columbine style.”

    There you go again Samuel (with apologies to the late Ronald Reagan). Provide my alleged “assertions.” The word “assertions” is defined as more than one.

  4. Samuel J. Harris says:

    Who said the “assertions” had to be made by you? The focus of the article and therefore that response is individuals like Rafael Martinez. Thank you (sarcasm alert) for showing real concern for the Remnant children who face the threat of an inspired potential bomber. No where did I say you made the assertions; in fact you stated you basically didn’t think Remnant advocated child abuse.

    If you think I’ve libeled you, bring on the litigation. I dare you. I triple dog dare you. Thought you’d like the resort to childhood taunts.

  5. Don Veinot says:

    Samuel wrote: “No where did I say you made the assertions;”

    I confess you are correct. My apologies for reading in to the statement more than was there.

    Samuel wrote: “The focus of the article and therefore that response is individuals like Rafael Martinez.”

    Again, the focus (and since I am the author I know what my authorial intent was), was about false teachers using government in an attempt to silence their detractors. The incident between Rafael and Gwen being but the latest example of this. In an earlier article, “What was CRI Thinking?” I talk about the Local Church of Witness Lee doing a similar thing.

    Samuel wrote: “If you think I’ve libeled you, bring on the litigation. I dare you. I triple dog dare you. Thought you’d like the resort to childhood taunts.”

    Childish taunts are certainly fun at times. Frankly I never want to grow up I just want to be a really old child. As for litigation, as I mentioned before, it is not something that I find necessary as my teaching and public demeanor & behavior stand or fall on their own merits. I don’t really need Uncle Sam swooping in to my rescue because I “hit back first.”

  6. deb says:

    “I dare you. I triple dog dare you. Thought you’d like the resort to childhood taunts.”
    now there is professional lawyer talk if ever i hear it!

  7. Samuel J. Harris says:

    Deb, it’s called satire and humor, sometimes effective means of communication. When I mailed away to my correspondence school after drawing a picture of Bambi, they sent me a diploma, but they never said I had to write in some sort of stuffy manner that meets your preconceived notions of how a lawyer should “talk”. You can laugh Deb cause you know that last sentence was funny. I am just thankful there are no personal attacks here so we don’t have to play the game of who started it. (Sarcasm alert).

  8. J. Gillespie says:

    Sam wrote: “When I mailed away to my correspondence school after drawing a picture of Bambi, they sent me a diploma, but they never said I had to write in some sort of stuffy manner….”

    I’ll admit I got a chuckle out of that.

    Gee, I love it when technical jargon is not bandied about and things are said in a way that’s easy for lil ole me to understand..but, somehow Sam, I don’t think that’s what you’ve done. That’s not what deb was talking about.

    However, you are consistent. You surely get points for that–somewhere.

  9. Kris Chatham says:

    I personally owe a huge debt of gratitude to Don Veinot, Rev. Rafael Martinez, Adam Brooks, Teri Phillips and many others who have so eloquently upheld the truth of the Gospel, and discussed their own experiences with Gwen Shamblin and the Remnant Fellowship. I have had two minor stepchildren involved with the Remnant for several years, and despite their having been “disciplined” by various Remnant members, my ultimate concern is for their spiritual well-being. I pray daily for them and the other Remnant members who are being taught the twisted, graceless gospel of Gwen.

    Again, I am so grateful for those willing to confront false teaching. My deepest desire is that those in the Remnant would search the scriptures themselves and discern the true gospel.

  10. CB says:

    1. Why would RFs attorney argue anything about the suit on a web page?
    2. “Remnant Fellowship has costs Mrs. Shamblin millions of dollars, yet she is constantly criticized as someone who is using Remnant Fellowship as some kind of money-making scheme. Show me facts not your biased opinion as to how Remnant Fellowship is a fraudulent or deceptive enterprise.”
    “Fraudulent”? Barely… More like control.
    My wife is in RF and I have sat in many webcasts where the leadership tells the followers to OBEY GWEN and Gwen says SELL WDW! Hey, every operation has expenses. Most churches voluntarily tithe, but this church uses free labor to sell WDW.
    RF leadership does not like being called a cult, but if the leadership were to stand and answer questions of concern, I believe that we would indeed find that their membership is duped in to a cult. Tell my WHY my wife has to go to TN three times a year AND is required to take our daughter even though I have protested?

  11. CB says:

    Why the response?
    Well, here it is Easter weekend, (Friday 4/6/2007), and my wife and daughter are gone until Sunday night to attend Passover in Tennessee.
    I specifically asked my wife not to leave me alone, or to take my daughter away from me, on family holidays. I have NO say! I have asked specifically that our daughter NOT be taken to the Summer Camp… she will. I have NO SAY. I asked for no Summer Camp because I know that my wife and daughter are separated and my daughter is subjected to “authority”. Authority means that the next oldest RF child has rule over her.
    If I were to step in and prevent my daughter from reaching the RF events, then I will be immediately divorced. As a non-believer, I am to be tolerated up to the point where I step in the way of their access to RF – beit my wife or daughter. No Cult?
    You think I’m making this up? Hardly.
    I have read email edicts from leadership that detail the “Drawing of the Sword”. I have printed email edicts that detail exactly WHY members are NOT to attend any function in any other church. To do so would “endorce” that church. By “any function”, the letter stated that even BINGO, or ANY event. RF members are NOT to step foot in any other church at any time for any reason, period.
    Not a cult?

  12. Don Veinot says:

    Thank you for your comments. I know that what you are going through is very painful.

  13. CB says:

    I can tell you all that the most painful part of all this is knowing that I did all I could to provide for my girls, but when RF came along, nothing we had planned previously mattered. It is all RF now.
    I have been left alone more than any other man can handle. I’ve been left alone to take a taxi from the airport because my wife could not pick me up because of an RF function.
    What hurts the most is that I proposed this family and we agreed on what I thought was everything. Our daughter was baptised in our Lutheran Church.
    I went away to work a job in another state because I was laid-off, and when I came back, she was totally immersed in RF. I dropped the ball – perhaps.
    We have NO date nights any more. It is ALL RF. Wednesday nights… forget about it! Saturday? … Forget about it! We can have a load of children over to visit, and she’s off in the office to worship Gwen. It doesn’t matter what is happening in our lives. When RF calls, she’s gone… and she’s gone a lot.
    So, Mr. Lawyer… a cult? That’s the main charge. Yes. Indeed this is a cult.

  14. KingdomGal says:

    Dearest CB,

    My heart aches for your pain….
    Continue to love and to explain to your wife that GOD has indeed made YOU to lead your family.
    Appeal to the directives that Gwen gives, she is supposed to be under your authority…
    YOur wife thinks she is doing something GREAT*
    The “beulah” women are very doted on in RF.
    Just continue to love here and plan things for your sweet family on non RF nights…
    That will show her honor and get some sweetness back…
    RF is so consuming but IF she is not honoring you then just PRAY for the lure to be broken…
    RF looks so beautiful on the outside but many a family has divided because of it….
    Dont let it destroy yours, just love and wait patiently upon the Lord.
    We left RF a short time ago because of all the
    “control” the leaders have over the members…
    We were shocked to find out that we couldnt attend a wedding or funeral in another church!
    There were so many biblical shortsightedness,
    to say that if we pay our respects at a funeral was to endorse all the sin of that church was too much..Very unbiblical indeed….
    Especially, there reasoning…They say that churches arent turning people from their sin
    so that makes them a counterfeit…
    What will they say to Moses? Jeremiah? Elijah?
    Paul?Jesus? Were these able to turn everyone from their sin? No! But does that make the messenger a counterfeit, NO!
    PUHLEASE! This church is sowing great seeds of judgement, condemnantion and biblical ignorance.
    I cant help but think once the money is gone the church will either repent of its pride and separitist notions or simply dissolve over time.
    So many I speak to (active members) are so scared of not getting it ‘right’ they really do not trust themselves, nor GODS spirit within them to lead them into “all truth”
    Some do not agree with all RF stands for but are to unsure to leave…They dont think there is anywhere else to go!
    But there are so many wonderful churches that are filled with the SPIRIT of THE living GOD…
    They have been taught to despise and to be wary of anyone outside of RF…
    But may your wife grow leaps and bounds and see what a dear man she has….
    Hang in there…..LOVE…LOVE…LOVE….
    Do not be bitter (Colossians)

    Gods best to you!

  15. CB says:

    … Very well put. Thank you for the comforting and kind words. Believe me, I’ll remain patient. This is year five.

  16. Sad says:

    The family that has been in RF for 5 years has recently left. The wife finally saw the sin within the “True Church,” and is not seeking the truth in other churches. Now she is very confused, but devoted more to her husband more than ever for not allowing a divorce to happen when she threatened. I pray the same will happen with your wife and daughter. It has been a true miracle in our family.
    I do have word that Gwesus and company has quietly applied to drop the suit against Martinez since it legally has no feet to stand on.
    I’ll keep you and your family in my prayers. I hate what this “church” has done to families and believers.

  17. CB says:

    This is just an extension of my wife’s being. I don’t know how to describe it, but it is basically that she has always wanted to be alone. To consider being married… to deal with a man – and his needs – has never been part of her constitution.
    The woman I married was my best friend mainly because I respected her ways. What I feel she never gave was the part that bends toward me. It has always been about her… I supported her colleges, I supported her Bible studies, but yet she left me behind and condems me for being a lesser man.
    What hurts me the most is that my own daughter tells me that I’m destined to Hell because I don’t belong.

  18. CB says:

    What disturbs me is that I proposed this family – and I laid out the plan in great detail. I provided, and during that provision, I gave great freedom for my wife to be indoctrinated into a cult that drew the sword in the family that I gave my best to make.
    When RF calls, my wife is gone.
    I asked specifically that my wife not leave me alone during traditional holidays, but that is to a deaf ear.
    I am only to be tolerated as long as I do not get in the way of my wife, or child’s, ability to reach RF’s required meetings in Tennessee.
    As a man who started out to create a family, and to have it disrupted by RF, I feel a great sense of disbeliefe and puzzlement. I provided the means for my wife to get involved in this group, and yet, I am vilified for not joining.
    Could a full-time, working woman have the means to join this group? I don’t think so.

  19. CB says:

    … unless she is single-minded to belong to such an “elite” group.

    By being such a provider, I enabled the dissolvement of my own family.

    I worked to provide income. I was gone a lot.
    I never saw it. I never suspected it. But now, there is a Gwen – who tells my wife what to think and do.
    I loved my wife before because she was herself – and she thought what to think and do. She would tell me when I was a “dork”… and I’d listen.
    Not any more.
    Now, I could tell my wife to go wax my car and she’d do it, because RF has told her to be subserviant to me… as long as I don’t get in the way of her access to RF. Nuts.

  20. Mrs. Allen says:

    After reading all of this with many words exchanged I was simply struck with that which is the source of arguements, or what has caused WD and the Remenant to be called into accountability in their teaching (note not just questioned): that Jesus is God in the flesh, not just a “son” but the physical manifestation of the Godhead, i.e. man- fully God, fully man. He did state very clearly throughout the gospel that he was “Yahweh,” why do you think the Temple Leaders picked up stones to throw at him, because he was making the claim that he was God in the FLESH!

    Why do I say this? Because if this is not the foundation of ANY teaching within the church, let alone any teaching brought forth in the world this is what happens: cultic behavior where unmerited favor is swithed to how much merit can you favor to prove you are holy will occur. The heart of man “is desperately wicked above all else” as the pslamist writes and thus DOES need the cleansing of Christ’s blood AS WELL AS the accountability in holding to this very truth. When a teacher holds themselves above such accountablity this should be a massive red flag. When we come to the realization that we can do nothing in and of ourselves that merits God’s favor but to trust only upon the sacrifice of Christ who was FULLY God and FULLY man only then will we STOP the rationalizing of our own thoughts and behaviors.

    The Remenant Church and WD has deviated from the FOUNDATION of the Bible, the scarlet thread that runs from Gen to Rev. Jesus is God and has always been Jehovah, was in the beginning and for all time, and deviating from this truth will always be the trademark of a cult: distorting the Gospel message.

    Also as a follower of Christ, one should welcome accountability if they are in the roll of leadership, this is something that Paul even touched upon for himself, why? Because he knew once again “the heart of man is desperately wicked.” I don’t see Ms. Shamblin doing this very thing and that is very alarming.

  21. Mary says:

    I recently finished EOOE from weighdown. I have had a hard time in the video sessions because although I saw a form of Godliness, I didn’t see the heart. What struck me in all the teaching was it was all based on man’s effort, with no mention of grace. I also noticed that all the people that are interviewed for the lessions, always are very careful what they say, and always look to Gwen for approval. I thought maybe I just misunderstood, but once she got to the part that “all the other churches are false churches, I knew that Gwen was not teaching truth, but false doctrine. CB you can pray, because that is one of the most powerful weapon of warfare. You can also love with the fathers love, and lastly, you can fight with the sword of truth, which is the word of God.

    Ms Allen, very well put, I see God’s truth in your words.

    In closing I am not a follower of Don Veinot but I see the truth in his words also. To Mr Samual J Harris, you didn’t get it at all. Mr Veinot answered you repeatedly but you just didn’t get it, I would ask you, Are you a follower of the One True God, and has Jesus knocked on the door of your heart?

  22. Jennifer E. says:

    I would suggest that none of you waste your time trying to get Samuel J. Harris to listen to reason. This is what the Word says of him:

    Proverbs 23:9 (NIV) Do not speak to a fool,
    for he will scorn the wisdom of your words.

    Thank you to Don and all the others for your honesty.

  23. Cori C. says:

    I am not part of the Remnant Fellowship, but I have had an immensely improved life learning to put God first from my WD materials. I was led to the Bible through WD. I visited the Remnant Fellowship, not knowing they didn’t believe in the trinity. I was about to join the Catholic church, as a matter of fact, and no one was pushy or rude to me. I saw joy and love in all the people I met. It hit me the next morning after worship that they had changed the words in “Holy, Holy, Holy” from “God in three persons…blessed trinity” to something else. On the way home my WD friend questioned the leadership of the Catholic church due to the actions of some priests being “swept under the carpet”, but she did it in the privacy of her vehicle. Our responsibility to God is to put him first. If I don’t agree with something Gwen says in the WD materials, I fast forward it and pray for her. I take to heart what I believe will HELP my relationship with HIM. Our world is constantly sending us messages. It is our responsibility to sort the good and bad. Gwen may have come in through the backdoor, but God led me to the Bible and a wonderful peace.

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